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	<title>Comments on: Training Tuesday:  Batboy Continues</title>
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		<title>By: TheSophisticatedDog</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4174</link>
		<dc:creator>TheSophisticatedDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 03:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4174</guid>
		<description>Crystal: Thanks for the great write-up about R- vs. P+/R- !

Peggy: BAT is perfect for your situation.  See my comments in the August 3 installment for more on BAT Stages.  You could start with Stage 1 on walks, and move on to Stage 2.  You can also do setups with friendly loose dogs who are under good verbal control, with the help of a trainer.

Amy, Kenzo, and Roxanne: Thanks!  Glad you are enjoying it!

Mary: I don&#039;t have such a guide on my website, but I will put one together ASAP.  Great suggestion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crystal: Thanks for the great write-up about R- vs. P+/R- !</p>
<p>Peggy: BAT is perfect for your situation.  See my comments in the August 3 installment for more on BAT Stages.  You could start with Stage 1 on walks, and move on to Stage 2.  You can also do setups with friendly loose dogs who are under good verbal control, with the help of a trainer.</p>
<p>Amy, Kenzo, and Roxanne: Thanks!  Glad you are enjoying it!</p>
<p>Mary: I don&#8217;t have such a guide on my website, but I will put one together ASAP.  Great suggestion!</p>
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		<title>By: Training Tuesday: Batboy Forever</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4160</link>
		<dc:creator>Training Tuesday: Batboy Forever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 12:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4160</guid>
		<description>[...] was created by Grisha Stewart.  The first week we covered the basic theory and techniques. In the second, we got into some more esoteric issues like &#8220;negative punishment,&#8221; which turns out not [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was created by Grisha Stewart.  The first week we covered the basic theory and techniques. In the second, we got into some more esoteric issues like &#8220;negative punishment,&#8221; which turns out not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mary E Haight</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4126</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary E Haight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4126</guid>
		<description>Wow- great series *and* comments! Irith&#039;s clarification of positive reinforcement/negative reinforcement is very helpful, I hope she has a Language Guide on her website to facilitate a better understanding in the pubic mind of how positive training methods have so much more to offer than the dominance model, especially for shy, fearful dogs.  Hey, that could be a great e-book!

Crystal&#039;s elegant rendition of what happens in a dog&#039;s mind with the &quot;I will choke you until you sit&quot; idea is getting emailed to someone I know - thanks Crystal!

And I LOVE the screaming pug video! I laughed and laughed - thanks Edie!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow- great series *and* comments! Irith&#8217;s clarification of positive reinforcement/negative reinforcement is very helpful, I hope she has a Language Guide on her website to facilitate a better understanding in the pubic mind of how positive training methods have so much more to offer than the dominance model, especially for shy, fearful dogs.  Hey, that could be a great e-book!</p>
<p>Crystal&#8217;s elegant rendition of what happens in a dog&#8217;s mind with the &#8220;I will choke you until you sit&#8221; idea is getting emailed to someone I know &#8211; thanks Crystal!</p>
<p>And I LOVE the screaming pug video! I laughed and laughed &#8211; thanks Edie!<br />
<span class="cluv">Mary E Haight recently posted..<a class="a085156cd0 4126" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.dancingdogblog.com/2010/07/pg-pet-food-recall-iams/">P&#038;G Pet Food Recall- Iams</a><span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip  4126" alt="My Profile" style="border:0" width="16" height="14" src="http://willmydoghateme.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Amy@GoPetFriendly</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4121</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy@GoPetFriendly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 04:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4121</guid>
		<description>I love this series! Can&#039;t wait for the next installment. It&#039;s a well-known fact that we do not have picture perfect dogs, and this discussion of BAT is really interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this series! Can&#8217;t wait for the next installment. It&#8217;s a well-known fact that we do not have picture perfect dogs, and this discussion of BAT is really interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Peggy Frezon</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4117</link>
		<dc:creator>Peggy Frezon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4117</guid>
		<description>Wow this  is very interesting, both the post and the comments.  I am going to try to remember this stuff to help make walk time more comfortable. Kelly loves her walks but will growl and lunge at loose dogs. If a dog walks by on a leash, she usually minds her own business.  I&#039;m always on the lookout for loose dogs which makes our walk time tense, at least for me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow this  is very interesting, both the post and the comments.  I am going to try to remember this stuff to help make walk time more comfortable. Kelly loves her walks but will growl and lunge at loose dogs. If a dog walks by on a leash, she usually minds her own business.  I&#8217;m always on the lookout for loose dogs which makes our walk time tense, at least for me!<br />
<span class="cluv">Peggy Frezon recently posted..<a class="f9dcadc5c7 4117" rel="nofollow" href="http://peggyfrezon.blogspot.com/2010/07/monday-pet-roundup_26.html">Monday Pet Roundup</a><span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip  4117" alt="My Profile" style="border:0" width="16" height="14" src="http://willmydoghateme.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Crystal Saling,</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4115</link>
		<dc:creator>Crystal Saling,</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4115</guid>
		<description>I love the screaming pug video.  How funny!  
In most cases negative reinforcement is not as good as positive reinforcement because it can still produce the sloppy unforeseen fallout that punishment can.  That is because traditional trainers would use painful versions of negative reinforcement.  Here is a common scenario:
1. dog is standing
2. Owner says &quot;sit&quot;
3. dog doesn&#039;t know what &quot;sit &quot; means and continues to stand
4. owner yanks on the choke chain- briefly cutting off the dog&#039;s air supply until the dog sits
5. when the dog sit, the owner stops choking him.

In this scenario several things have happened.  
1. sit was negatively reinforced- sitting made the bad thing go away
2. standing after the owner said &quot;sit&quot; was punished- standing made the bad thing happen
3. the word &quot;sit&quot; has been paired with a bad thing- so it is a threat from here on out- either you sit when I tell you or I will choke you. (some people like to fool themselves into thinking that the dog &quot;respects&quot; them- when really the dog is frightened or it wouldn&#039;t work)
4.  Because of the &quot;or else&quot; attached to the word &quot;sit&quot; you can get a slow and sloppy response because you have activated the dogs fear system- really skilled trainers usually don&#039;t have this happen because their timing is so good- but the average dog owner usually ends up with a dog who is almost afraid to move when they hear the word &quot;sit&quot;.  The fear of moving is the sloppy fallout that I was talking about earlier.

But when you are dealing with fear of things in the environment- the bad thing is already happening- (in set-ups where we set up an artifical situation we make sure the dog is far enough away from the bad thing that they are not overwhelmed or too scared).  Ofen, the dog is concerned about the trigger (could be a man with a hat or another dog or even a car) and all they really want is for that trigger to go away or for themselves to be moved away from the trigger.  

Many dogs try to use distance increasing signals such as barking and growling to make the bad thing go away- and it usually works!  The owner may be embarassed by the dog&#039;s behavior and takes him away from the situation, or the person with the hat is scared of the dog and he moves away.  The dog was just reinforced (negatively I might add) for barking and growling.  BAT keeps the dog far enough away from the trigger so that the dog does not feel the need to bark and growl- when he offers more acceptable behaivor- he is rewarded by getting further away from the trigger (again, his behaivor made the bad thing go away- negative reinforcement).
Negative reinforcement is actually a pretty good way to go when dealing with some fear-based reactivity because the bad thing that is made to go away already exists in the dog&#039;s world.  We are simply teaching the dog a different way to respond to make trigger go away.

I hope that clears up a few questions about negative reinforcement and why in this particular circumstance it isn&#039;t a bad thing.
Crystal Saling, CPDT-KA, KPA-CTP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the screaming pug video.  How funny!<br />
In most cases negative reinforcement is not as good as positive reinforcement because it can still produce the sloppy unforeseen fallout that punishment can.  That is because traditional trainers would use painful versions of negative reinforcement.  Here is a common scenario:<br />
1. dog is standing<br />
2. Owner says &#8220;sit&#8221;<br />
3. dog doesn&#8217;t know what &#8220;sit &#8221; means and continues to stand<br />
4. owner yanks on the choke chain- briefly cutting off the dog&#8217;s air supply until the dog sits<br />
5. when the dog sit, the owner stops choking him.</p>
<p>In this scenario several things have happened.<br />
1. sit was negatively reinforced- sitting made the bad thing go away<br />
2. standing after the owner said &#8220;sit&#8221; was punished- standing made the bad thing happen<br />
3. the word &#8220;sit&#8221; has been paired with a bad thing- so it is a threat from here on out- either you sit when I tell you or I will choke you. (some people like to fool themselves into thinking that the dog &#8220;respects&#8221; them- when really the dog is frightened or it wouldn&#8217;t work)<br />
4.  Because of the &#8220;or else&#8221; attached to the word &#8220;sit&#8221; you can get a slow and sloppy response because you have activated the dogs fear system- really skilled trainers usually don&#8217;t have this happen because their timing is so good- but the average dog owner usually ends up with a dog who is almost afraid to move when they hear the word &#8220;sit&#8221;.  The fear of moving is the sloppy fallout that I was talking about earlier.</p>
<p>But when you are dealing with fear of things in the environment- the bad thing is already happening- (in set-ups where we set up an artifical situation we make sure the dog is far enough away from the bad thing that they are not overwhelmed or too scared).  Ofen, the dog is concerned about the trigger (could be a man with a hat or another dog or even a car) and all they really want is for that trigger to go away or for themselves to be moved away from the trigger.  </p>
<p>Many dogs try to use distance increasing signals such as barking and growling to make the bad thing go away- and it usually works!  The owner may be embarassed by the dog&#8217;s behavior and takes him away from the situation, or the person with the hat is scared of the dog and he moves away.  The dog was just reinforced (negatively I might add) for barking and growling.  BAT keeps the dog far enough away from the trigger so that the dog does not feel the need to bark and growl- when he offers more acceptable behaivor- he is rewarded by getting further away from the trigger (again, his behaivor made the bad thing go away- negative reinforcement).<br />
Negative reinforcement is actually a pretty good way to go when dealing with some fear-based reactivity because the bad thing that is made to go away already exists in the dog&#8217;s world.  We are simply teaching the dog a different way to respond to make trigger go away.</p>
<p>I hope that clears up a few questions about negative reinforcement and why in this particular circumstance it isn&#8217;t a bad thing.<br />
Crystal Saling, CPDT-KA, KPA-CTP</p>
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		<title>By: Kenzo_HW</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4114</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenzo_HW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4114</guid>
		<description>From this screaming pug-averse reader, yes I would also definitely appreciate. But no rush. Lemons ripen in ... and Pearls in ... I don&#039;t want to seem impatient, I am just eager to learn more. Already learned a lot from what you have write so far. Love this series, helping me in a great way in finding the right way to help Viva, our reactive dog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From this screaming pug-averse reader, yes I would also definitely appreciate. But no rush. Lemons ripen in &#8230; and Pearls in &#8230; I don&#8217;t want to seem impatient, I am just eager to learn more. Already learned a lot from what you have write so far. Love this series, helping me in a great way in finding the right way to help Viva, our reactive dog.<br />
<span class="cluv">Kenzo_HW recently posted..<a class="05f03fa6da 4114" rel="nofollow" href="http://kenzothehovawart.blogspot.com/2010/07/training-tracking-with-your-dog-raising.html">Training tracking with your dog- raising the bar</a><span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip  4114" alt="My Profile" style="border:0" width="16" height="14" src="http://willmydoghateme.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Kenzo_HW</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4113</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenzo_HW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4113</guid>
		<description>It definitely does. It was wat striked me with BAT reading the story last/this week. When me and Viva (our reactive dog) met a source of fear: I was starting with treats (pos.reinf.). Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn&#039;t. But overall I thought it stressed her too much.

When taking it more relaxed and just turning around and leave the source of fear (because I was not happy with the result before) she was at least relaxed.

So I think BAT is just the right thing for me and Viva. It could show us the way to move forward from here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It definitely does. It was wat striked me with BAT reading the story last/this week. When me and Viva (our reactive dog) met a source of fear: I was starting with treats (pos.reinf.). Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn&#8217;t. But overall I thought it stressed her too much.</p>
<p>When taking it more relaxed and just turning around and leave the source of fear (because I was not happy with the result before) she was at least relaxed.</p>
<p>So I think BAT is just the right thing for me and Viva. It could show us the way to move forward from here.<br />
<span class="cluv">Kenzo_HW recently posted..<a class="41520572bc 4113" rel="nofollow" href="http://kenzothehovawart.blogspot.com/2010/07/training-tracking-with-your-dog-raising.html">Training tracking with your dog- raising the bar</a><span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip  4113" alt="My Profile" style="border:0" width="16" height="14" src="http://willmydoghateme.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: TheSophisticatedDog</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4112</link>
		<dc:creator>TheSophisticatedDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4112</guid>
		<description>Yes, it is a very important part of BAT, since the functional reward (see blog post) is very often the removal of the stress-inducing thing.  I hope that makes sense!  The &quot;man with a hat&quot; case is a good example of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is a very important part of BAT, since the functional reward (see blog post) is very often the removal of the stress-inducing thing.  I hope that makes sense!  The &#8220;man with a hat&#8221; case is a good example of this.</p>
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		<title>By: Edie Jarolim</title>
		<link>http://willmydoghateme.com/dog-training-behavior/training-tuesday-batboy-continues/comment-page-1#comment-4110</link>
		<dc:creator>Edie Jarolim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jul 2010 17:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://willmydoghateme.com/?p=6070#comment-4110</guid>
		<description>No problem, Irith, especially since you volunteered -- via email -- to try to get a video of acceptable behaviors together. That would be something that I (and my screaming pug-averse) readers would definitely appreciate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem, Irith, especially since you volunteered &#8212; via email &#8212; to try to get a video of acceptable behaviors together. That would be something that I (and my screaming pug-averse) readers would definitely appreciate.</p>
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